Pas du tout voici le mandat officiel en 2015, trouvez sur le site de la caisse
Donc 3 Station Terminal, c’étais logiquement Gare Central, YUL et Fairview.
En gros la CDPQi avais repris le trajet qui avais proposé ADM, SLR-O et SLR-RS avent de ce rabattre sur la version qu’on connait aujourd’hui.
Merci pour cette pièce d’informations, j’avais pas cette version des faits!
Les trains passaient aux 15 minutes ce soir entre Anse-à-L’Orme et Bois-Franc. J’essayais d’avoir une photo avec la destination clairement affichée, mais les conditions dépassaient de loin les capacités de mon cellulaire.
@owen Potentiel ridership, route, projected cost, types of trains evaluated, mode, whether it evaluated a connection with the SLR du Pont Champlain/Rive-Sud, frequency and hours of operation of the service, upgrades to existing line, cost of purchase of the existing right of way, whether electrification was considered and what was the cost, details about the airport connection, benefits of the project, etc.
Sur la page Facebook du REM
Ce printemps, l’antenne Anse-à-l’Orme sera mise en service. Apprenez-en plus sur ces 4 nouvelles stations dans l’Ouest de l’île.
Parking, parking and more parking…
“A lot of the stuff they are doing looks very good on paper, but I’m not convinced that it’s what we need in the West Island,” he said. “Their solution is that people will all take public transit to get to the stations, but the West Island is, unfortunately, vehicle reliant. To get even a short distance, we need cars.”
Besides Fairview I am curious what the ridership of other stations would be without the parking, though, to be honest. Unlike DM the stations on this branch are located quite far away from the closest neighbourhoods. The closest residences from Sources or AAO for example, as far as I can tell, is a ~15 min walk away currently. Buses are half hourly as well which I can only assume isn’t attractive to many people.
I’m having difficulty seeing how the branch can realistically have meaningful ridership until some of the TODs start to materialize. Parking short term could help in the meantime until it eventually gets converted to housing imo
La branche ouest du rem pour être plus pres des zones résidentiel aurait dut être installé dans l’emprise d’hydro-Quebec qui longe Salaberrry et cette ligne haute tension aurait dut être enfoui.
I predict it ridership will be a flop for some stations, until they add proper parking and TOD in their respective strategic locations.
The bus network redesign is centered around Fairview station, adding mall trafic there, that station will be well used.
At the other end of the spectrum, being inacessible by foot, with the disastrous EXO redesign to Vaudreuil/IP, virtually no parking, AAO will only see John Abbott/MacDonald campus driven ridership.
Kirkland has a bunch of houses at walking distance, eventhough street layout is not ideal but limited bus connections.
Des Sources will serve the people working in industrial areas nearby and a few bus connections.
Logically, the same “hybrid” model that is used on the south shore, where Panama and Du Quartier are TODs with commercial areas and Brossard is a “greenbelt” bus terminal and parking for users beyond should be used in the West Island.
Fairview and Kirland are the stations where successful TOD is realistic, AAO is the clear “greenbelt” terminal & parking, Des Sources also had a lower potential for redevelopment as the area is heavily industrial, making it realistic for parking as well.
Everybody seems to focus only on houses and parking. Let not forget that many people commute for work to WI. Busses like 72 and 470 has rush hours ridership towards WI.
Yup. And many 485 users will be re-routed onto the REM, in addition to many who currently take the 411/405/211/425.
Anse-à-l’Orme will have 216 parking spaces plus 20 for carpooling, Des Sources will have 484 parking spaces, plus 50 for carpooling. That’s 700 parking spots which is not no parking.
If we look at cities that have HUGE parking lots around the stations, such as the Silver Line in Virginia that goes to Washington DC, it has 2000+ free parking spots, and gets a ridership of about 1,900 a day. Let’s compare that to Radisson métro station, which gets on average 10,900 people a day. But Radisson has only 395 free parking spots? Why does it have so many more people? It’s because parking doesn’t drive ridership, it’s the buses that connect them!
All the REM stations on the West Island have bus loops of different sizes, not to mention the bus terminal like you said. I think this will get plenty of ridership, mainly from people transferring
The problem is not the bus terminal but the bus service itself.
Vaudreuil will get at best half hourly service during the day and during rush hours (7 to 9) there will be roughly 9 departures. At 50 pax/bus that’s only a capacity of 450 passengers to the REM.
Add the Ile Perrot/Dorion lines (591 and 790) with their combined 4 departures towards the REM, that’s a capacity of 200 passengers.
On the STM side, the only line that will bring in commuters towards the city center is the 212, with 5 departures, so a capacity of 250 passengers
Total capacity is only 900 passengers where this station serves an area with a 100k population, including rapidly growing regions. The 200 stall parking lot will be full by 6AM every day, giving access to the station to 1100 persons, IF all busses are full. This is nowhere near “transformative”, nor a proper way to ensure that this population has actual access to the REM. Without serious changes, people will continue to drive all the way to the center of the island/downtown.
The population figure is comparable to the combined Chambly/Carignan/SJSR (or consider a portion of Brossard instead) population served by the Brossard terminal. Yet, that area has way more RTL busses on top of a 2k stall parking (that gets full every morning, at least the free portion).
On top of it, the way EXO bus service is structured is absolutely unattractive. It forces most people to go through the Vaudreuil terminal which is now longer to access by car with all the development around it, or for the few lucky ones, take one of the few local busses if their schedule allows. In both cases it is at least 1 tansfer on a not really frequent bus, only to cross the bridge, forcing you to pay a zone C ticket on top of it, vs a zone A ticket at AAO. Even paid parking at AAO will be popular given the fare saving and removing the transfer pain & time savings.
I understand that in theory, busses have the potential of brigning in more ridership than parking, but actual, attractive and sufficient service has to be provided, which is far from the case here. We just have to realize that given the current transit budget crisis, relying solely on a bus-heavy model to feed the REM in the West Island is a failure. Excuses won’t make people get out of their cars, actual alternatives will.
Frequent and direct busses to the REM straight from the denser areas of Vaudreuil, Dorion, Ile Perrot and express service with small parking lots along the 40 would have been a proper replacement to a large size parking lot in AAO, but this is far from being the actual service. In the current context, the best short term solution is to add proper paid parking at AAO.
Radisson is not a great comparison here as it is located and serves an area that is way more urban, and gets busses from both the south and north shore. AAO is truly suburban by nature, the same way the Brossard terminal is. In both cases, the use is to serve areas far beyond the station and not really the immediate surroundings as there is basically nothing. A good comparison to Radisson is (pre-REM) Cote Vertu that serves the local area, as well as EXO, STL and West Island STM.
100%. The problem is still the budget! If we don’t have budget to increase bus service, we will not have the budget to build and maintain a surface parking lot.
Let not forget that the REM is profit driven, if the parking was be profitable they will push to build it.
As a general rule I fully agree but I also think that only applies if you have many buses and/or high quality bus lines pouring into the station
Fairview will have no issue being popular seeing as all the buses converge there. Even if the individual bus lines aren’t too busy, the combined total of all the buses adds up to a significant number. But the other three have very few connecting bus lines, and the connecting lines run very infrequently. A bus of 50 people every half hour is only a hundred people per hour, and realistically a half hourly bus isn’t likely to fill up to 50 people.
Radisson has the 44 which is a highly frequent, dependable bus line as well as a number of other connecting lines, so the comparison to me isn’t ideal. A station like georges vanier would probably be a more apt comparison, but even then it has a much more advantageous walkshed than any A3 station
Keep in mind that the original plans had 2000 spots at AAO and 1500 at Fairview (nothing says what % was paid or free), so if it was so unprofitable to add parking, there would have been none in the original plans.
Feeder busses also cost money as they have an operational deficit, which is being paid by the ARTM, not the REM, so of course the most profitable way for the CDPQi is to have people access the stations by bus.
Where the script changes is that the redesigned bus service is way below expectations, to a point where REM trips that would have happened with proper busses now simply won’t. This is a loss of 0.72$/pass/km (or 21.60$ AAO-McGill per passenger) for the CDPQi that they can’t charge the ARTM as the riders keep driving instead.
I would bet that REM leaders at CDPQi are raging when seeing that the new bus service is far from the initial promises. There is now a good incentive for them to actually subsidize (at least partially when paid) parking at some stations as a 5$/day subsidy can now generate them a 40$ round trip on the REM that woudln’t happen otherwise.
I know tons of people who now take the 209 from Dorval and Pointe-Claire to the new Pierrefonds station, and they’re eagerly awaiting the Des Sources station which is much closer. They’ve also added a new 230 route that goes through the heart of Pointe-Claire to Sources station. I think people who don’t live in the West Island underestimate just how busy some of these bus routes get at certain points of the day and now with REM stations to feed, ridership is gonna be just fine 
À la lecture des commentaires sur Facebook, dans les médias et sur ce fil, on comprend que le changement de paradigme est énorme pour la population de l’Ouest de l’île.
Il est nécessaire par contre. Les gens vont tout simplement devoir s’habituer à prendre le bus pour se rendre aux stations du REM, comme beaucoup font dans RPP, Ahuntsic, NDG, même bien des secteurs de Laval… Bien sûr ce sont des quartiers généralement plus denses, mais je ne dirais pas que le service bus y est tant meilleur en proportion.
Je crois que le véritable enjeu est qu’il y a un blocage mental pour beaucoup de ces gens à prendre le bus et ce n’est pas nécessairement associé à la qualité de l’offre. C’est juste que personne ne veut vraiment l’avouer.
Dans l’ouest, il y a quand mêmes les lignes suivantes qui seront aux 15 minutes ou moins en pointe pour aller vers le REM:
Pour Vaudreuil, c’est différent. C’est sûr que la 591 avec ses départs aux heures en pointe va surtout attirer des usagers captifs. C’est dommage mais il y a une combinaison de contexte financier et de facteur historique avec ça.
Les gens à la CDPQ ne sont pas parfaits mais ils sont loin d’être imbéciles… S’ils n’ont pas mis de stationnement à Fairview et Kirkland, c’est parce qu’il y a beaucoup plus d’argent à faire à court terme en y construisant du logement.
