Interesting. While I have no doubt those flights are gonna be full during peak travel period, it is really in the shoulder seasons (November and late march) that the load factor might be lower.
I wonder if Air France would start a FDF-YUL service with the A320 they have based at Pointe-à-Pitre to compete.
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Am I dreaming or did Air France originally have flights to both PTP and FDF when they first started flying their metal to Montreal from the islands? Currently they’re flying to New York, Montreal and Cayenne so I’m not sure they have room to add yet another destination unless they do a one-stop which usually isn’t desirable. I’d like to see Air Caraïbes take on the FDF run if Air France can’t though.
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They have 2 A320s in Guadeloupe, but I bet they could use A220s if they had enough.
As for Air Caraibes, the problem for them is that their planes are way too big for north american service.
Agreed… it’s a fantasy wish… oh well…
if Air France puts an A220 or two in the Caribbean that would be awesome. Given the state of grounded aircraft due to engine issues it might be a bit riskier than it would otherwise be but who knows. Let’s hope and hope one ends up here too.
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I mean technically they could position more A320s to the caribbeans if they wanted to build a mini network there.
I think many years ago they had 737s based there. I recall flights to Miami from somewhere in the Caribbean so none of this is really a new idea. I guess it’s based on the size of market the French Antilles can attract. I believe it’s a little more upscale than some of the more popular destinations with non francophones like Cuba or the Dominican Republic. I think it would be a good thing to do if there’s any potential or at least set up a subsidiary to do the job indépendant of mainline Air France.
Ultimately Guadeloupe and Martinique are tourist destinations for north americans. The only thing that makes us special is that we have a lot of french people and we speak french, which might contribute to higher numbers of tourists visiting those islands.
Given that… I think it’s fairly limited what Air France could do there.
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North Americans travel all over the world including non English speaking countries. It comes down to marketing and the type of tourist and business travel they want to attract. They have to appeal to them in some way, the French language is actually a positive as far as I’m concerned. It’s unique in the Caribbean, a bit more upscale as I mentioned… a tropical version of France. It should sell if done right. We do our best here and it seems to work. Not everyone is open to foreign environments but they aren’t the likely travellers they want then. It could be they need to better develop this strategy before Air France invests more heavily into it. The few routes they started might be a proving run in easily captured markets. Time will tell
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En 2019, Norwegian était le 3e transporteur à desservir FDF et PTP au départ de Montréal. Les vols que j’ai pris à l’époque étaient bien remplis, mais Norwegian s’est retirée de la desserte des Antilles au départ de YUL et JFK.
D’après le Comité martiniquais du tourisme, le Canada (surtout le Québec) serait le premier marché international pour le tourisme en Martinique, et ce, malgré le prix assez élevé des vols d’AC et Transat. Il me semble qu’un peu plus de concurrence sur cette liaison ne ferait pas de tort.
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I think you misinterpreted my comment. Given Québec’s french diaspora and french language, it’s natural that we would travel to Martinique and Guadeloupe in higher numbers than the rest of the continent. I’m not saying other people in North America don’t want to travel there, just that it’s less of an obvious choice.
Air France also has a few issues when it comes to establishing flights out of PTP and FDF. First they need to position planes there, which adds costs that are not as easily offset by economies of scale than positionning them at CDG.
There is also a geographic disadvantage, because the cost structure of Air France is in euros, whereas Air Canada has CAD. This matters on pricing, because Air Canada might have more flexibility.
Air Canada and Air Transat also have a hub at YUL, which makes it easier to route people from elsewhere on a flight to PTP or FDF. Air France doesn’t have that.
Therefore, it has to be very profitable for them to start flights like that, unless they think it’s a growing market and they can make an investment. Also, it has to be more profitable than other options out of CDG…
I think Air Canada and Air Transat adding flights is encouraging though, and the french diaspora keeps growing here so the demand will only grow I think.
I love this kind of topic!
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ITA (AZ)has joined the Lufthansa Group
I wonder if we will see AZ on YULFCO next year? Considering AC has added extra flights this year and Italy is in high demand (MXP, VCE, FCO) AC, TS ?
Or YUL MXP to liberate a plane
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If other Lufthansa Group airlines are any indication, we would see an ITA Airways flight between FCO and YUL, but given that they don’t fly from MXP, I think this would stay on AC metal.
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I too love these types of discussions. I don’t think we’re far apart in our perspectives. FDF & PTP are a small markets with limited capabilities for Air France to invest heavily into at the moment. But IMO they could do what Arajet is trying to do… make it a mini hub to connect North and South America to cities in the Caribbean and Mexico as well as between the larger continents. Being on the eastern flank they are well placed for flights from France and other cities in Europe to feed into it as well. The A320 flights to Cayenne, New York and Montreal are low hanging fruit for them… a means to start to see if anything can develop. They need to make it more about connectivity and less about the islands themselves just like what’s happening at YUL… let people pass through onwards to somewhere else.
On the other side I have limited knowledge about vacation packages etc but I’ll presume being a higher end destination there’s less family and cheap all inclusive package offerings which limits their growth to wealthier travelers. I could be wrong. I had a colleague who went to Guadeloupe every January and loved it. I got the impression from him it was like this. So for internal growth they might need to break out of that mold and try attracting more of the general US vacation travelers. Combining that with a decently active hub operation and it could be ripe for Air France to place more aircraft there.
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EXCLUSIF : French Bee va ouvrir Montréal depuis Paris Orly 
French bee programmera Montréal en mai 2025
La rumeur courait depuis quelques jours, les équipes de Dubreuil Aéro ont été informées : French bee va lancer à partir de mai 2025, la desserte de Montréal au départ de Paris Orly. Après les Outre-mer, les USA et la République dominicaine voici un pays de plus pour la low cost du groupe Dubreuil, sur une ligne déjà très bien desservie par les compagnies canadienne.
https://www.tourmag.com/EXCLUSIF-French-Bee-va-ouvrir-Montreal-depuis-Paris-Orly-_a123363.html
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it’s about time 
ITA doesn’t have a base at MXP, their base is at Linate which is more of a domestic hub.
YUL-FCO with ITA is a strong possibility now.
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With the newly opened metro station, landing there isn’t that bad anymore
ITA is launching a few flights to the Middle East that Lufthansa doesn’t serve, it will provide connectivity for Canadian travellers.
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