J’ai oser m’aventurer dans le groupe Mouvement/Rally Train Deux-Montagnes sur Facebook. Parce que je sympathise beaucoup avec eux sur certains aspect du REM.
-fermeture prolongé de la ligne DM
-mesure de transition pourrites
-Structures élevées même si elles auraient pu être au sol ou en talus avec des over ou underway pour les traverses à niveau
Je leurs écrits :
On parle d’un ralentissement sur un petit segment (dans les courbes) qui pourrait avoir un impact majeur. Il n’y a pas non plus de barrière antibruit dans ce secteur. Alors je suis pas mal persuadé qu’ils peuvent régler le problèmes sans affecter significativement le services. Il ne devrait pas avoir ce problème de bruit dans la branche Deux-Montagnes puisqu’il n’y a pas de courbes prononcés comme celles rencontrées dans Griffintown. Sauf peut-être secteur de la station du Ruisseau.
On me répond:
"il y a des courbes un peu partout ainsi que des ponts avec le son qui se reflète sur l’eau pour atteindre des condos de luxe … On commence à faire des restrictions de vitesse à un endroit, on va devoir le faire ailleurs. Ensuite vient la réduction de fréquence et hop, le REM perd le peu d’avantage qu’il avait. Qu’ils (le REM) règlent le problème de son autrement en Griffintown.
(Il n’y avait pas un petit Bape où des gens comme moi ont perdu leurs temps en présentant des mémoires qui se penchait sur tout ces questions mais que la classe politique et CDPQ considérait inutile - “le Bape n 'est pas le pape” - franchement qu’ils payent pour prendre des mesures adéquates ou achètent tout les condos avec vu sur le REM…)"
Tsé quand toute est fait pour te plaindre et que tu refuses toutes les propositions.
Heh, I remember that group. I don’t really use facebook anymore but in 2018~2020 with the constant BS we were being dealt by all the powers at hand regarding transportation and mobility, it was nice to have a group that was for all intents and purposes a “vent space”
To be honest they were always anti-REM, since i joined it in 2018 or so. I can sorta see why, the main reason we wanted an upgrade was because the comfort level on DM was really bad but it can be argued that the REM will actually be less comfortable: about a 40~50% seating reduction, only longitudinal/“bench” seating, even the standing experience will be worse because you have to wear or hold all your bags the whole way instead of putting them up on racks until you get off.
The other things that left sour tastes in everyone’s mouth about the REM: lack of communication about closures and service cuts, asinine alternative measures (as far as i know the overwhelming majority of former DM users sucked it up and bought a car/started using their car more lol), and the elevated segments in roxboro didnt help matters either.
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To be clear the frequency upgrade is stellar and moving to 15 min off-peak/5 min peak frequency will almost certainly be a game changer, but it’s not the upgrade they “wanted” when asking for double deckers, if that makes any sense. As such when you add in all the other stuff that has happened, I really dont blame them at all for thinking the project is crap. It’s very likely that their opinions will change when the DM reopens as REM and they get a chance to ride it and see for themselves how it is, unless cdpq really botches it hardcore.
Personally I find it laughable. I can’t have sympathy for rich-ass people who are complaining about their precious lifestyle in Griffintown. The project was announced in 2016, you clearly have known for quite some time that the REM was coming to your neighbourhood.
In any case, you bought a condo right next to train tracks in the downtown core, what did you expect? Rainbows and unicorns? Come on.
From what I can see a lot of the tests are still 4 cars, which is what they’ll be during rush hours, but not in middle of the day like we’re seeing now. Could it be maybe just other tests? Also by Nun’s Island there’s construction work being done (at where the vehicles drive onto the track), but despite that they do seem to be continuing tests.
Edit: I’m watching more with the camera on the bridge, and they seem to skip right through stations too
Étant moi-même un ancien utilisateur de la ligne DM je comprends également tout à fait leur frustration, surtout qu’initialement la CDPQ avait promis qu’il n’y aurait aucune interruption de service majeure pendant la transformation de la ligne en REM. C’était relativement crédible, si la caisse n’avait pas eu à complètement rénover le tunnel.
En fait, la pandémie et la baisse de la demande de transport vers le centre-ville en 2020-2021 a été bénéfique en ce sens pour la CDPQ, il y aurait eu beaucoup plus de plaintes sur les fameuses mesures d’atténuation si la demande était demeurée aux niveaux pré-pandémiques.
Un point dont on ne parle pas souvent, s’il n’y avait pas eu le projet du REM, à quel moment les faiblesses structurelles du tunnel sous Mc Gill College auraient-t-elles été découvertes? Il y aurait probablement eu une fermeture non-prévue et de relative longue durée de la ligne à un certain point dans le futur.
Let’s be honest, the double deckers (mutli-levels, pulled by a loco) weren’t the greatest rolling stock for this line. Eventhough they offered more seating, the standing room was basically non existent on the main floors, due to the narrow alley. Exiting at one of the first stations on the line was a nightmare if the train was full. The single width doors made the dwelling times longer at every stop, and not having self propelled cars made acceleration slower, which was notable compared to the MR-90s.
In the end of the day, the double deckers were an improvement for people leaving from the furthest stations where they were able to sit more comfortably, but did noting for anyone south of Sunnybrooke.
The REM is definitively a better upgrade overall, despite losing some comforts like the baggage racks and better seating, the enclosed stations, frequency, added destinations are more than enough to offset the losses. These double deckers really shine for longer lines with fewer stops like the St Jerome line, the St Hilaire line, or a version of the Vaudreuil/Hudson with less stops in the West Island.
The REM is definitively a better upgrade overall, despite losing some comforts like the baggage racks and better seating, the enclosed stations, frequency, added destinations are more than enough to offset the losses. These double deckers really shine for longer lines with fewer stops like the St Jerome line, the St Hilaire line, or a version of the Vaudreuil/Hudson with less stops in the West Island.
Oh yes definitely, I wasn’t trying to suggest that the REM was necessarily the wrong way forward for DM, but moreso I was trying to express sympathy for those who were desiring a comfort upgrade back when we had the MR90s – For those people, the REM can be easily seen as a slap in the face since it further reduces comfort in exchange for massively improved frequency and connections, whereas maximising comfort was their wish from day 1.
As I mentioned I think for many, their opinions will shift once the REM actually opens. Having high all-day frequency provides the possibility to be able to plan last-minute around the REM, which is particularly useful for those days where one may want to engage in the “5 à 7”, or attend a weekend event, or anything of the sort without being bound by a rigid schedule, with a harsh (time) penalty for missing a train.
Of course we all know all this, but for them it’s not something that old commuters necessarily thought about too much (the car filled that role prior, to be quite honest, as it permits you to leave whenever without worrying about schedules or any of that faff). It takes actually having the system around and using it to see that “wait this is a decent trade”.
I would be lying if i said i wont miss sitting down, though xD. I kinda wish the seating arrangement was a but more genrous on that front.
Yes, but that all goes back to the argument that urban metros are for urban areas, while suburban trains are for suburbs; Bigras, Ste-Do, and DM don’t need a metro, and it’s fairly easy to make the point that nowhere west of Du Ruisseau does, either. But the DM line was part and parcel of being able to build the rest of the network so “cheaply,” so what’re ya gonna do?
Haha, i definitely picked it up from somewhere, but not from him. I think it’s more likely that i got it from Ashens, actually.
There is a case to be made that we likely would have never seen the west island or airport branches ever come to be, however, had DM not been renovated too. The way I understand it, the main concern was CDPQ needed a tunnel to get to the airport and west island; that DM was conveniently using one for that purpose and was also in dire need of an upgrade kinda made it seem like a “well why not lump them in” decision rather than because DM needed a metro by its own merit.
While I do get the “cheap” argument, I don’t think a revised seating arrangement would really cost that much extra. While obviously Id prefer a double transverse seating on both sides to maximise seating room (this is the seating arrangement on both MR90 and the multilevels, though the MR90 grouped them into fours), I guess this hurts the maximal capacity overall, so id have even been fine with longitudinal on one side and double transverse on another side (this is the seating arrangement of the comets that were used on Candiac up until super recently).
The currently chosen layout of longitudinal only on both sides seems to just maximize pain. At this point im wondering if it’s more of a me problem and if I just need to lose weight or something, but whenever i end up on the longitudinal seats on the buses (in the back where they’re grouped closely together as would be so on the REM) im very much squeezed by the people to my left and right, resulting in a very uncomfortable experience the whole way through. Im 200% NOT looking forward to this every day on the REM; id possibly rather stand, and I hated standing on the MR90s very much lol.
edit: i totally forgot about the huge seating cut with the REM, so much that even with the post-pandemic ridership cut, its very much possible that ill be standing every time anyways lmao. I guess that the problem wasnt much of a big deal after all then since ill hardly sit to begin with xD.
Im pretty convinced that there’s something about racks that make them impractical or impossible to use as a solution. I cannot figure it out at all however, its one of those things ill probably forever be flabbergasted on.
Racks im reasonably certain are simply not common on metros in general, and in the vast majority of transist systems ive been, theyre not offered at all. It seems that the MR90s/comets are the oddballs on this regard. Yet, to me, they were extremely efficient on the MR90s and were a win-win for all parties involved (not having to wear or hold your bag is extremely pleasant, and it lets more people fit inside)
If it was me designing future rolling stock id include racks on all metros or trains both for passenger comfort and as a constructive way to get people to take off their damn bags to fit more people aboard. But im not the one designing it, people more experienced than me are, and they made the choice not to for… reasons, possibly good ones im not aware of.
It’s funny you say that west of Du Ruisseau there’s no need for a metro, cause the first plan for the Montreal metro included a line (line red) up to basically Bois-Franc.
Personally I think going to Roxboro was necessary with this projet, even if currently it’s connecting a suburb more then an urban part of the city. I think It’ll be great for the region and will allow it to become better. And once you go up to Roxboro why not go to Deux-Montagnes particularly because they already had something before.
I’m not sure to understand that. I live in Roxboro, but I’m young and basically only sleep there ahah so I’m not quite up to date with what people think here. But like the elevated portion is literally just before Rue du Centre-Commercial there’s just three houses that have the ramp behind them and there’s no residential on the south side of the line behind this road. On the north side there’s a few houses, but with the train everybody was already able to see into their terrain as the train was higher then by a few meters. Once you pass Gouin there’s not much either and then it goes on the ground again. Like I don’t understand how could someone complain about it, you even gain a heated (and with wifi) place to wait for your bus.
As for the seating, it can seem like a big downgrade, but also it’s not much different in other cities. In NYC, I’d commute 50 minutes every day on trains with longitudinal seats, and I’d get a seat at some point. Also even if I did stand the whole time, it’s really not that bad. Unlike a bus, the acceleration and deceleration is very smooth, so it’s not as much “work.”
Il me semble qu’ils avaient parlé au début d’avoir certaines rames avec des espaces pour les bagages.
Cependant, le cas d’usage des touristes à l’aéroport demeure une infime partie de l’achalandage éventuel du REM. En prévoir dans toutes les rames serait selon moi pas mal trop overkill et couperait de la place pour les autres usagers.
Do you watch 
