VIA Rail - Discussion générale

Pour une fois qu’on est pas d’accord ahah ! Pour clarifier, pour le service (l’infra c’est autre chose) je ne suis pas contre la subvention si le service n’est pas rentable et ne peut pas l’être.

Par contre, une fois qu’un service est rentable, pour moi on devrait le laisser s’autogérer et gérer son propre budget sans argent public.

Pour moi, ça ne se compare pas avec l’école et l’hôpital car le transport est une fraction du coût d’un voyage. Quand tu vas à l’hôpital, c’est ta seule dépense. Même avec des TGV peu chers, ça reste que pour partir en congé, il faut être capable de se payer un logement, des activités, se restaurer… bref tout ça coûte plus cher que le transport lui-même. On le voit avec Ouigo en France, même avec leurs tarifs bas, les CSP+ (catégories sociales aisés pour les moldus) sont surreprésentées dans les Ouigo.

Tout ça ne m’empêche pas de soutenir la tarification sociale d’ailleurs, qui est le système le plus juste en matière de transport selon moi.

100% d’accord si un service est de toute façon pas rentable. Il doit exister et génère une externalité positive alors on le subventionne, c’est le cas de Via aujourd’hui.

Par contre, le jour ou ça devient rentable, je pense que ça devient une mauvaise utilisation de l’argent public, à l’exception de subventions ciblées pour de la tarification sociale.

D’accord avec toi sur les vacances, mais les gens ne se déplacent pas exclusivement pour leurs vacances. Je crois savoir que tu es d’origine française, et donc tu as probablement constaté que beaucoup de familles sont éparpillés à travers la france et que le train est aussi utilisé pour voir des membres de sa famille.

Oui, après France ou pas France, les gens visitent leurs familles ahah ! Les visites familiales (même si c’est moins cher que d’aller à l’hôtel on s’entend), ça reste des congés, et statistiquement les plus modestes en prennent moins.

Sur du longue distance et de la grande vitesse, la solution la plus efficace pour garantir des prix bas c’est des compagnies à bas coût type Iryo, Ouigo, Go Volta ou Flix Train. Cela dit, celui qui paye la différence c’est pas l’État via la subvention mais le travailleur de ces compagnies là, au statut moins bons que ses collègues des grandes compagnies nationales.

Après, il reste que dans le contexte canadien, qui est un contexte de faible utilisation du rail + de difficultés financières, je préfère qu’on utilise le peu d’argent qu’on a pour améliorer le service, plutôt que pour faire baisser les prix (puisque de toute façon ça ne coute tellement rien de faire un long trajet par la route, même avec l’essence à 2$/L).

You could answer your own questions if your critical thinking went further than a) “this is different, so it’s bad” or b) “this reminds me of an airline, so it’s bad.” It’s cynical to believe there is no reasoning behind VIAs policies. Traveling almost weekly with VIA, I hear the same misconception you are perpetuating from some people.

When I say save time, I mean to allow the train to leave earlier.

First of all, no passenger is required to arrive early, it is a recommendation. If it is such a burden to your busy schedule, you can arrive a 2 minutes before departure. So how does arriving early save time?

First, baggage handling. It takes time to process the checked luggage. Arriving early means that employees can gather all the checked baggage down at the platform to load it on the train as soon as is is ready. The alternative? Trying to triage the baggage as 400 riders are trying to embark, the train will be waiting awhile

Second, accessibility. Riders with mobility issues need assistance to descend. Because riders arrive early, these clients can be brought to the front of the line and given priority assisted boarding. The alternative? Someone with a cane slowing descending blocking the way, or having to stop the descent to set up the wheel chair lift for another.

Given the choice of habituating riders to being early or being last minute, the choice is clear.

There are in & out trains, meaning Montreal is a stop on the route, or trains starting from Montreal. For in and out, 5 minutes is allotted for any who needs to get off the train, and another 5 to embark. There are frequent delays. For departing trains, the time is 30 minutes to embark. If ever you are waiting any longer than the 30 minutes, it is most likely a delay caused by CN.

The platform is too tight. Imagine riders from a multiple trains waiting bellow, or family waiting to greet someone arriving in town, people disembarking, as well as the VIA employees driving their carts around.

VIA platforms are outdoors in the harsh elements. Even the Montreal and Toronto platforms are cold in winter. Why are you in such a rush to discomfort? It’s like having the choice of waiting for your taxi in your home, or standing at the street in the rain to save 2 minutes.

Even if VIA implements your time saving proposals, what will it change besides making a more stressful and dangerous experience? CN will deny requests for new timeslots for VIA, there are no high frequency VIA lines. If I am in charge of VIA and I have a line that can only have two trains pass per hour, my focus will be on making sure the trains don’t miss the timeslot and then use the time to offer a comfortable experience for customers.

VIA enforces baggage weight limits primarily to protect baggage handlers from injury. Amtrak has the same policy. The Shinkansen trains have a max 30 kg per bag policy, as well as many other passenger rail networks. Many VIA riders are coming from to or from an airport, so adopting the baggage weight standards set by IATA just simplifies the experience for customer moving through rail and air travel.

A safety precaution in case the train attendant is incapacitated in say a derailment and riders have to exit the train on their own. Safety procedures seem useless or redundant until you need them.

VIA does have dining cars, just not on trains between Quebec city and Toronto. Most passengers trips in that corridor are under 4 hours, meaning a snack suffices. A full dining car was deemed not viable financially, especially with many bringing their own food.

That’s false. Depending on your fare, a fee may apply for selecting your seat, be it window or not. If you leave the default assigned seat, there is no fee.

Amtrak, Eurostar, Indian Railways use dynamic pricing. Dynamic pricing exists in many pricing models, not just airlines.

I’m saying this again: VIA Rail is like an airline because they make sure the weight is good on your bagage which no other train in the world restricts, only VIA Rail. Every other rail line you deal with your own bag (which VIA Rail already does, weighing bags is just their way of making money).

Or they can just be on the platform before the boarding process begins to allow being on board early like ever other country does.

This is because of the way the train station is designed but we can change that by having more than one staircase/escalator down to the platforms.

Shinkansen has this due to high tourism and they don’t actively weigh every bag like VIA Rail does.

“They’re not like an airline” proceeds to share how they’re identical to an airline

No other railway does this, you keep avoiding this part of my statements. Sure VIA Rail does it but why? You told me to have critical thinking but you’re the one blindingly agreeing with what VIA Rail does and defending it.

Most Amtrak trips are under 3 hours (like the Northeast corridor and they have cafe cars, there’s no reason to not have a cafe car. Additionally for shorter trips it actually makes more sense because you can line up to get food or wait, instead of hoping the cart passes before your stop.

“A snack suffices” sure for you but not for me, I want a meal! And a cafe car allows for hot food! I can get a cheese burger on Amtrak, but can only get a dry sandwich on VIA Rail!

At the end of the day, every point you’ve raised explains how VIA operates, but not why it has to. “It takes time to load baggage,” “the platform is too tight,” “safety procedures matter,” these all describe the current setup as if it’s the only possible one. But every one of those is a choice VIA made, not a law of physics. Other railways around the world move huge volumes of passengers without weighing every bag, without airline-style boarding, without forcing people to arrive far ahead of departure. So if they can, the real question isn’t “how does VIA justify this?” it’s “why did VIA choose this model in the first place?”

My honest thought is that it’s because VIA is competing in a corridor dominated by commercial air, so they borrowed the airline playbook wholesale; baggage weighing, boarding procedures, the works, whether or not those things actually serve rail passengers.

And that’s the whole point I’m making. You told me to think critically, but defending each policy one by one isn’t critical thinking, it’s working backwards to justify a system that already exists.

Critical thinking means questioning why the system is built this way, not finding reasons it had to be.

Progress in transit, and frankly in anything, comes from people who refuse to accept “that’s just how it is” as an answer.

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You ignore many of the explanations I give you and just repeat the same talking points. For example:

I shared multiple links to various passenger rails that have similar baggage weight restrictions. I agree VIA is very strict in enforcing this policy, but it is false to say they are the only one.

Overweight baggage is not accepted on Québec–Windsor Corridor trains, which represents 95% of Via Rails total ridership. Meaning only 5 percent of ridership (The Canadian line and Ocean line riders) can pay to have overweight baggage. Knowing that, it’s disingenous to claim VIA is using the policy to make money.

It’s for employee safety, which I am starting to believe you think is worth little.

I agree with you that Gare Centrale needs to be reimagined, but we are talking about now. I gave many reasons why passengers don’t wait at the platform.

The cold/heat and tight spaces. Look at the space the employees have to do maneuvers, now imagine riders waiting down here for their train:

The Shinkansen has the baggage weight policy for safety reasons, there is no mention of the weight limit correlating to ridership numbers. I can demonstrate this because they do have a separate policy for when there are too many riders, they simply refuse the luggage:

This might shock you, their words not mine, but the Shinkansen rules state that their oversized baggage policy is designed to align with most international Airlines.

Are they trying to take themselves for an airline? Or is the policy meant to facilitate using multiple modes of travel?

I didn’t avoid it, and I explained why:

Agree or disagree, there is a reason why. It’s different, like many things about VIA, but does that mean it’s bad? Maybe. Maybe not. They have a higher standard for employee safety. Even if it can be an annoyance for riders, I’m sure employees appreciate it.

I respect your opinion. I believe that VIA has limitations imposed by transport Canada and CN, such as speed and frequency of passage. Since they can’t beat the automobile, bus and plane on convenience, they decided to focus on a model more aimed at comfort and customer service.

You can question something and reach an understanding of why it is that way as well. I never said anything has to be that way, but rather why it was the choice amoung the options. With enough money and will, anything can change.

You asked many open ended “why?” questions, I answered them. In the same way you ask why, I ask you why not? Your go to answer of “because it is different” just isn’t enough. At a certain point, rejection without understanding or reasoning simply makes someone a contrarian.

Hopefully ALTO will be more in line with what you are looking for in inter city travel.

I think we’ve actually agree more than it looks.

That’s my whole argument, it’s a deliberate strategic choice for VIA Rail, not a necessity. So we agree on the why . Where we differ is whether it’s the right.

For why I think it isn’t, the airline-style model imposes real convenience costs (arrive 30+ min early (not 100% necessary but most people do and line up), no walk-up-and-board, no walk-to-the-cafe) in exchange for “comfort” that’s debatable. A dry sandwich from a cart isn’t obviously more comfortable than an Amtrak café car you can use on your own schedule. When a service that’s already losing on convenience adds friction, that’s worth questioning.

My answer isn’t “because it’s different.” It’s that each piece of friction has a convenience cost, the comfort payoff is thin, and the cumulative effect makes the train feel like a worse plane rather than a better train.

For example just having a café car for me would improve VIA Rail service, but I understand ordering a specific car for this would be needed. The café-car model serves both the snacker and the person who wants a hot meal; the cart model serves neither well (if you miss it when you were asleep, and getting off in two stops, good luck).

I hope so too! When I went to the open house I asked specifically about having a café car haha

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What @mashdash wants :squinting_face_with_tongue:

PS: I’m with you on the coffee/bar/snack car accessible at all times

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