REM 2 - Est de Montréal

Yes, as I said, they’ll surely be measurably less noisy, but they won’t be silent. As Mayor Peter Yeomans used to counter the noise protests from residents near the airport: “That’s the sound of cash registers ringing.” The price of significantly improved mass transit might be a substantially degraded visual and aural environment, but it must progress. People bought houses along a train line with no guarantees that frequencies wouldn’t be increased. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

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I know exactly what im talking about because I worked on all these projects. The STM project was longer because of pure incompétence and inexpérience in construction projects. The schedule and the budget was busted by more 50% and now they have a claim of over a 100M $. You can be a governement or stm cheerleader if you want, but i speak from my experience and what I saw personaly.

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Il ne cache vraiment pas son biais contre le REM. À ce point-ci c’est de l’arrogance crasse.

On doit avancer vite, mais on doit tout requestionner :thinking:

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Michel Auger est tellement mal placé pour se réclamer comme défenseur de l’intérêt public. Il n’en a que pour ses opinions tranchées qui sont méga évidentes depuis le début, et là je parle de depuis l’annonce du premier REM. Comparer ce projet au Stade Olympique, qu’il deviendrait un éléphant blanc, etc.

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Further commentary on the cancellation this morning in The Gazette.

Thankfully for the Caisse, exiting the REM de l’Est probably won’t affect CDPQ Infra’s ability to bid on future light-rail management contracts abroad, according to Dafina Dunmore, a senior director at Fitch Ratings in Chicago.

“They’ve demonstrated with prior infrastructure projects that they have the skillset and the knowledge to execute on these types of projects, so I wouldn’t think that this would be any sort of damaging development from a reputational perspective,” Dunmore, who follows the Caisse, said in an interview. “If anything, this is a lesson that they will hold the line on return objectives for various projects. They have a fiduciary responsibility toward their depositors, and they have to adhere to that. Backing out of the project, given that there were some changes, gives us comfort from that perspective.”

McGill’s Shearmur agrees.

“I think the Caisse will recover quite easily from this,” he said. “Over the last few years it seems they’ve been managing the pension funds quite well. The concrete structures on the West Island aren’t that great, but the western REM goes alongside highways so it’s less of a planning problem. Once we can get to the airport quickly, this will be forgotten.”

With CDPQ Infra out of the picture, the heat is now on the four organizations overseeing the REM de l’Est — Quebec’s transport ministry, the city of Montreal, the ARTM and the Société de transport de Montréal — to come up with an acceptable solution fairly soon.

Leblanc, the Chamber of Commerce’s president, puts the timeline at no more than a year.

“If you want to develop the east end, you need a quick answer with regards to public transit,” he said. “You need to come up with a proposal that will reassure investors.”

A key issue for Montreal “is that we don’t have a process in place to make sure we can get this thing moving,” Shearmur said. “One of the advantages of the Caisse was that they were going to get it done, in their way. The danger of spending too long consulting and trying to reach a consensus is that consensus cannot be reached. We can’t get bogged down with every mayor, every community saying they don’t agree, and nothing happens. That would be terrible news for the eastern part of the island.”

Added Shearmur: “It’s easy to point fingers at the Caisse, but the reason they got into this trouble is that we haven’t developed this overall vision of where we want mobility in Montreal to be in 20 years. When we know what we’re hoping for, we can say how we’re going to get there. That’s where solutions like the REM come in. If we have a vision of land use and mobility, we can then insert all our transport and infrastructure plans inside of it.”

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Un peu en retard… mais le International Railway Journal (IRJ) vient de réagir. :upside_down_face:

Montreal takes on REM Eastern Leg

City and province replace pension fund.


The impact of REM’s elevated alignment has concerned local residents. Photo Credit: REM.

International Railway Journal | May 13, 2022 | Written byDavid Thomas

THE city of Montreal and the government of the province of Quebec have stepped in to take forward the eastern branch of the Metropolitan Electric Network (REM) project after project developer CDPQ Infra abandoned plans for the elevated route in the face of public opposition.

Running from Montreal city centre to the far eastern tip of the city, the 32km branch with 23 stations was expected to cost $C 10bn ($US 7.7bn) and take seven years to build.

CDPQ Infra, formed by pension fund Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, is funding and delivering the REM project, a 67km automated light metro system that it will also operate.

According to CDPQ Infra, the eastern branch would be unprofitable if it could not straddle streets in the city centre and use land currently forming part of a public park.

In March CDPQ Infra unveiled new designs for the project in response to public concern, which it said addressed 80% of concerns raised in a report by an expert advisory committee. The report was critical of the original design, stating that the large concrete pillars to support the elevated track could end up dividing neighbourhoods.

According to the government of Quebec, certain sections of the route still remain unacceptable to local residents despite the work done by CDPQ Infra.

A new project team including metro operator Montreal Transport (STM) will now work with regional transport authority ARTM to finalise the planning and design of the project. This will pay special attention to providing better interchange with STM metro lines and a more sensitive alignment in the Mercier-Est area.

CDPQ Infra will be reimbursed for planning work undertaken to date.

“Since Day 1, our goal has been to achieve the best possible public transit project in the eastern part of the Greater Montreal area,” says Quebec prime minister, Mr François Legault. “The project has evolved over time and it must continue to evolve. We are making the necessary adjustments to fulfil our commitment to build the eastern branch.”

The REM is one of IRJ’s 20 projects to watch in 2022, which was published in the January edition. Digital subscribers can read the feature here.

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La ligne rose est un projet complétement irréaliste qui coûtera au minimum 25 milliards (820 millions du kilomètre) , sans les dépassements de coût. C’est beaucoup trop cher. C’est pourquoi le projet a été rapidement jeté aux poubelles. Pour bien moins d’argent, on pourra desservir Montréal-Nord et désengorger la ligne orange. Il faut savoir que les extensions du métro souterrain à Montréal, c’est terminé, sauf pour de petits prolongements ici et là (orange à Bois-Franc, deux/trois stations sur la verte à l’est et à l’ouest, et ligne bleu à Anjou). Le futur, c’est le REM. De plus, un métro à 800 millions/un milliard du km, moi je crois pas à ça. C’est de la folie. Descendez ça à 300/400 millions du km.

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La technologie proposée pour la ligne rose était semblable à celle du REM.

La portion souterraine du REM de l’Est sous Lacordaire sera d’environ 9km. La portion souterraine de la ligne rose tournait autour de 14km, donc 5km de plus, pour une diagonale vers le centre-ville desservant beaucoup plus de monde et de pôles d’achalandage.

À mon sens, le 5km supplémentaire aurait valu ben la peine.

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Oui, il serait utile, mais il ferait exploser les coûts. 25 milliards pour une ligne de métro est tout simplement farfelu, surtout quand d’autres alternatives moins chers et quand même efficaces existent.

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C’est là la vraie différence. Pour 25 milliard on aurait fait passer tout le nord-est à 20 minutes du centre-ville. C’est plus de 500 000 personnes. Les retombées sont beaucoup plus grandes que ce que le REM de l’Est aurait pu générer.

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PM initially suggested automation, smaller stations, steel wheel trains, and having a third of the line above ground, but we never heard what the STM thought of operating a line that would have been so different from the current Metro. It’s true that their main role is to operate existing services, but the STM never seemed enthusiastic about the proposal. It’s unfortunate they didn’t help the City promote the project.

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2.5x ou 15G$ plus cher pour 10mins de gains vs le REM. Je m’excuse si je me trompe, mais je me rappel des arguments contre le REM qui disait qu’il était trop cher pour le résultat. La ligne rose semble d’être la même chose.

At that rate, build the REM as is or buried under R-L and give it to the STM or ARTM. Potentially bring it to Lachine using the Westmount sub. I imagine that being cheaper by quite a bit and contribute about as much to connecting the whole island.

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Vous avez manqué mon point.

Faire sauver 10 minutes à 85,000 habitants de Montréal-Nord, c’est génial. Mais la ligne rose aurait fait sauver beaucoup plus de temps à 500,000 personnes dans Rosemont et le Plateau en plus de Saint-Léonard et Montréal-Nord. C’est non-négligeable.

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